Episode 017: Visual Storytelling: Making Ideas Seen and Felt with Phil Lashley

Purpose Driven Success with Mo Salami

Episode 017: Visual Storytelling: Making Ideas Seen and Felt with Phil Lashley

Episode Description:

Creativity isn’t a talent reserved for designers—it’s how we solve problems.

In this episode, Mo Salami sits down with visual storyteller and framework designer Phil Lashley to unpack what creativity really means, why visuals help ideas land faster, and how leaders can turn messy thinking into simple, powerful messages. Phil shares his journey from corporate life in Barbados to working with thought leaders around the world—and introduces his FRAME Method for making ideas unforgettable.

If you’ve ever struggled to explain what you do clearly, this conversation will shift how you think about creativity, messaging, and imagination.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Every time you delay action on your dream, every time you don't believe in yourself, you are feeding this monster. And the opposite is true. When you take a bull step towards your dream, whatever micro step, whatever that looks like, you're starving this monster. Whatever step you take towards that dream, you're starving the doubt.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Hi, this is Most Salami, and welcome to the podcast. My guest today, Phil Lashley, is a sought-after framework designer with over 15 years' experience in visual storytelling, and he turns complex ideas into clear visuals and custom animations. Phil attracts visionary disruptors who urgently need their core ideas to be seen and to be felt. His design and animation work has been featured in major film marketing. Wait till you hear this. Shrek, Pirates of the Caribbean. And on the Drew Barrymore show, as a creative consultant, Phil's collaborated with the award-winning brand builders group to bring transformative ideas to life. Phil is known for innovation, reliability, and ease to work with. And Phil is the creative thought partner that leaders trust to package and scale their transformative ideas. Phil Lashley, welcome to the show. Whoa.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

One day I'll get used to hearing this, but thank you for having me, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

So, Phil, I just want to start by saying a great philosopher once said, It's not how creative you are, it's how you are creative. What's that all about?

SPEAKER_01 1:42

It's how you're creative, yes. I don't know about great philosopher, but it's a quote that came to me um a couple years ago when I was just wrestling with the idea of you're carrying all these titles around art director, creative director, and people look up to you like if there's some magical power you have, and then it struck me, well, there's a creative professional, yes. We exercise our brains differently, I think, but everyone is creative, and I think it's not fair to that you're not, because you are creativity is not reserved for like creative agencies and these big companies with big budgets and teams and um resources. Every person is creative, and that quote was something I said to myself, and then I started sharing it, and when I saw people resonating with it, like this liberating truth. I am yeah, I keep sharing it over and over.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Just in case, just in case I butchered it, can you give us the quote again?

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Yeah, it's not how creative you are, it's how you're creative. It's not how creative you are, how creative you think you are, or how creative you think people say you are. That doesn't matter, it's how you're creative. When you're in that position, you're faced with the problem, the obstacle is like you innately start to think of solutions. I think the late Steve Jobs said it best, where creativity is just solving problems. Anyone can solve problems, everybody can solve their problem or attempt to.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Let's make the audience jealous a little bit. Where are you right now? Which part of the world are you in?

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Currently, I'm in my homeland, Barbados, where I was born and raised and attended school and college. I've been here for two months. We just love to come around the holidays to spend time with family while working, partially.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

And where are you based usually?

SPEAKER_01 3:40

I like to say my wife and I, we have storage, a storage unit in central Florida. So we are based in Florida sometimes of a year. For four years though, we have been slow traveling different regions of Central America and South America and um a little bit of Europe, the Caribbean mostly. This started as a an experiment coming out of 2021 or so, and it just organically evolved into this creative lifestyle. We are traveling slowly while building our business together.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

What's been one of your favorite places to visit? You mentioned so many places there.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Yeah. Yeah, we keep going back to this region in Guatemala. Um, believe it or not, Antigua, Antigua, Guatemala has been one of our surprising places. It's just so creatively fueling, and we have a little community there, both local and people who migrated there. There's just so much, so much going on there. The land is alive, there's three active volcanoes. Well, one active volcano, three two dormant volcanoes, but there are a lot of these things that makes life um not perfect, like smooth the way we want it. There is this ruggedness that we love, so we keep going back there and who knows, we might have a little place there in the future.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

That was such a great moment because we got to live vicariously through your travels. So, Phil, take us back to your backstory and how you got to where you are today.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

A series of miracles, my friend. But uh I'll I'll like to start with just giving folks a little clue as to how I got doing what I'm doing. Everything trails back to living in Barbados, went to school, got the job, corporate, you know, tie, white shirt, a little laptop bag, and I'm catching a bus every day, putting in full eight hours to the T and slowly realizing that I am investing a lot of energy and time into something that I really don't care for in another two years. Heck, even right now, like at the moment, like doing this job was just out of routine, the expectations, the smart thing to do. All these phrases was true, they were true for me, but I was not energizing anyway. I never saw future the role of a computer technician for an insurance company. I felt like I was not living really. Then I don't know where it started, but just paying attention to what I paid attention to. There's a phrase I I normally say to not my kids, but my godkids and any kind of student that I get to interact with when they're trying to determine like what to do with life. There are these things that come top of mind that we keep pushing aside for various reasons. But for some reason, I went down the rabbit hole with trying to discover why I am so fascinated with the behind the scenes of things, like how the commercials were made, how the movies were made. At the time we would get these directors' cuts from different movies, and those are the things that kept me really interested into just the backdrop of how people think. That's where it all started for me. That led me to exploring what kind of career I can have to be in those rooms, the behind-the-scenes rooms. So I managed to persuade my parents and miraculously be afforded art school tuition for one semester, then the next, then the next. This was in uh South Florida. I attended the Art Institute for their very one of their first visual effects and motion graphics program. That's where I started. And that just led me after semester to semester, not knowing which one was my last, it developed this hustle in me to just make the most of my time in Miami because it was so expensive. Just following the rabbit trails to the internships, working for free for different studios around the South Beach region, and all this experience allowed me to see this wide perspective of how I can use the craft that I studied. And that's where things began to got interested.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

A lot of people have that feeling. You know, they're doing amazing in their role, and they have this feeling in their heart that I should be doing something over the other side, this other thing. What tends to happen, Phil, is most people they tend to stop and pause. Yeah. And they go, I'll do it tomorrow. Tomorrow becomes five years, five years becomes a decade. What caused you to just go for it straight away? Sounds like.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Yeah. Yeah, I think this awareness of how limited time is, how life is so short. I don't know if it can it could be traced back to the um people that I was losing in my life, whether it was through death, accidents, or if it was the other things where family members would come visit Barbados. My mom is from Trinidad, my dad is from Barbados, so we would often have um our guests, uh family, relatives visiting, and as a little boy, I just remember just crying, bawling my eyes out when they left. It's like, why do you have to leave? So this trauma, child trauma, caused me to be appreciate time in a very real way. So I just reasoned and I feel like people can relate to the truth that like your tomorrow is not promised. So if you can just imagine three, two years, if so much, of my life and I look back. If you look back, are you regretting not taking baby steps to doing the thing, going for the dream? That's something I'd like I'd like to challenge our listeners to do. If you can't find a way to go get a thing, find a version of it that you can get in and now the baby steps.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

A word that really stuck out for me there was regret. Really, I'll paraphrase you a little bit, like really going for it because time is finite, just to avoid that regret. Let's go to a parallel universe. You circle back, and you still sit in in your suit and tie. Can't forget the boss. Yeah. So your suit and tie for the bus. Imagine if you were still there, as in literally and metaphorically, and hadn't have made that journey. What does that regret piece look like? Pi it's mostly quick question. What's the next breakthrough that you're aiming for, but you haven't yet figured out how to unlock? If you're an impact-driven overachiever, ready to master high performance without the burnout or the guesswork, I'm offering a complimentary 30-minute high performance coaching session to help you clarify your goals, reset your strategy, and identify the next steps to scale your impact and your fulfillment on your terms. In this session, we'll look at what's holding you back, what strengths you can double down on, and how to frame your high performance journey for even better results. Go to mostalami.com forward slash coaching to schedule your free 30-minute session. That's mostalami.com forward slash coaching. And let's get you moving. I'll link it in the show notes.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Yeah, yeah. Um, a lot of mistakes. It didn't take me long actually to start making a lot of mistakes in my current job. And I didn't mention that at first, but the truth was this delay of going after the thing that feels filled me, resulting in me making stupid mistakes on the job. I remember my supervisor would let a lot of things slide and it's like, really, Phil? Like, where are you? Where's your where's your brain? And he was right, like, my brain was not there. Do you really want to delay going for the thing? Or do you want to make little efforts to uh make changes? Because sometimes it may not be hard pivoting, uh Mo. It may simply be taking a vacation, like literally taking a true vacation might reset your perspective on what you're currently doing. Taking a sabbatical, that's something that I highly recommend. I just took one for four weeks. Mind-blowing the benefits of that. But you get what I'm saying, like even if it's not the hard turn, you know, quit the job, everybody thinks that's it. But whatever that dream is, there's some little micro step you can take towards it that will fulfill you now, that would decrease that regret in two years.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

And you went for it, you went to that next level to do what you're doing now. So I just want to back up and like really clarify for the listener what is it that you do now for companies?

unknown 12:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

We're established business owners and we're beginning to serve uh corporations like the enterprise level, their internal teams. It's all about clarity. So we're taking complicated things, whether it's uh framework IDs, you're you're trying to cause learning. You're trying to get someone to understand something, whether it's internally or externally, and there's this blockage, there's this misunderstanding, there's this uh this length of time, this gap, if you will. It takes too long to be understood. What we are doing is creating the right visuals, visual storytelling to close that gap, to increase buy-in, to increase the level of understanding with within your teams internally or with your prospects. Specifically, you might ask, hey Phil, what does that really look like? For example, you might have a business where you're transforming people's thinking. You're taking them from a point A to a point B. And when businesses are starting, there's this period of time where you're trying to figure that out. But I'm really talking to the established business owner, you know, who are in they're in the game for maybe years of experience, 10 plus years, for example. This seems to be the track rock word where they know their thing, they have their their what they do, but they're not sure the how they do it. That's where we come in. You bring visual clarity to those.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

They really, I'm hearing your frameworks, they really clarify the understanding that the the business owner is is taking someone to. And you mentioned going from here to there. So what does that look like? What could be an example of a visual framework that shows me I'm going from here to there?

SPEAKER_01 14:31

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'll give you an example of where we just wrap this uh client. Um he's a doctor. He is a therapist and he has other extensions to his business, but he's well known in this space. And he's at a point of his career where he's wanting to write that book, but his second book, actually. He's wanting to have these more meaningful retreats, these experiences. And he came to me with this problem where he's good at talking about his his message, his processes, but he struggles to show them in a very clear way where it doesn't depend on him to communicate this. So this visual clarity came about in our working relationship, where we're digging for clues, we're going into backstories, we're taking all of the scattered notes from him from his databases and his his files, and finding that through line and wrapping it in the story considering his personal life, and coming up with something that is so strong that he felt like for the first time, his words, he feels like he's not supposed to go to the next thing after this. I mean, come on. Feels like he can go deeper with this kind of work.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

So his messaging is that clear that even he feels it at a level.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So he's telling us all these benefits he's discovering about not just the final output with these clear visual models, but also the process. I think that's something that my wife and I, a business partner, Antoinette, we learned this along the way that the process is just as important as delivering the designs and the animations that go with it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 16:15

So what I'm hearing is that that process to finding the messaging visually is as important as actually getting to the actual final design, if you will.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

Yes. Yes, absolutely. It's very therapeutic in a way, actually.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

What's the difference between a message that sounds good and a message that's memorable?

SPEAKER_01 16:37

What's the difference between a message that sounds good? I mean, there's a lot of that, especially if you're using AI. A message that is that sounds good is different from a message that is impactful. Because the impacting message is you you don't just recite it, but you you feel it. There's a lot of emotion that is wrapped around it, and you can recite that to someone in a very real, relatable way. There's messages and there's processes, and all that is wrapped up in these clear visual models that we're created for our clients because story is the ultimate thing that is wrapping it around. And a story is something that we don't have to sell our clients. Like they know the power of story. Everybody knows the power of a story, the power of a singular visual that speaks a thousand words, you know.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

And of course, this is what you do. You help people create those visuals that speak a thousand words. And when was the moment when you said, I need a framework, I need to put all of this into a framework and talk us through that framework as well.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

The frame method, okay, let's see. Uh 2023, I feel like it was one of the roughest years in business for us. And the economy had crashed in the tech industry, it seemed, all of the work we were getting monthly, it just dried up. And what it did was to give us the gift of time, really, to look at ourselves and and question like, what are we doing? Who are we really wired to serve? And we got some answers, but more importantly, we got to thinking about the way we are understood, the way we've seen. Like, are people really understanding this? Are we clear? We created this methodology that came from reverse engineering all of our successful clients. It was like a study on ourselves. What made these clients, what made these projects really successful? We got some answers and then we went a step higher and started investigating. Okay, what are the award-winning projects from agencies? Like the clues there. What do these have in common? What is making er every one of these projects or videos successful or campaigns? Okay, we saw some similarities. Then we went a step higher and thought to ourselves, okay, what about movies and award-winning albums from artists? What is the thing that really connects with people that makes them memorable and successful? So we came up with these five questions. I say that with pride because it came from the research, the hard data that we we discovered. It came down to five questions. And in the same way that we we would frame our most memorable moments in life. You take a gazillion pictures with your cell phone, and you might only frame one or two, if so much. We want to keep these memories top of mind for our kids, in our kids' rooms or offices or um in our homes. We put them on our walls because we want them to be unforgettable. We want people to see them. We want we want it to stick. So, likewise, if we can do that with our most precious memories in life, we put them in a frame. We can do that also with our ideas, our most precious ideas in life. So then I started thinking, okay, so we're framing ideas. I like to say these five questions, it's not like a perfect science, but if you can at least answer two of these five questions, you're well on your way above the norm. You cut through a lot of noise to becoming unforgettable. So you can frame videos, you can frame your podcast, you can frame any kind of message in your idea that you have. It's a five-part acronym, F-R-A-M-E. The F stands for feelings, the R stands for relatable concept, the A stands for aesthetics, the M stands for message, and the E stands for expression, F-R-A-N-E. And the questions that go with these are feelings, okay? What are the feelings that you want your audience to feel when they experience you or when they experience the idea that you're trying to communicate? All right? Like what should this podcast feel like, Mo? The R. R stands for relatable concept. What is that relatable concept that my my audience, my clients, they already shaking their heads in approval? They already bought in. You need to leverage that. The A, what should it look like? The aesthetics. You go deeper into visual branding and the purposeful use of colors and fonts, you know, color psychology, that kind of stuff. Most people get that one right. The M stands for message. What is that one message that you want people to take away? And the E is the expression. How else can the idea be expressed? Okay. And for this last one, I find that people are just so one dimensional and say, hey, Phil, I need a video. But is that the only thing you really need? How else can I express this idea beyond a video, you know, and be going to tap it into like this multi-sensory experience? Like, how else can this thing can be uh seen, uh um touched? Is there a smell to it? It goes a little crazy, but that's the kind of work that we do with our our thought leaders when it comes to helping them translate their big ideas into simple, clear, sticky concepts.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

Yeah. So if we delve into the M of the frame method, why is it important to have that one-line message? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Well, the easiest thing I think about, the quickest thing I can say to you is that attention spans is just so short. And you want if you're gonna say something, make it stick. Um, beyond a catchy phrase, I feel like there's something with reputation where if I come on your podcast and I hear a certain message from you at the top of the podcast or at the end of the podcast in the podcast show notes, it becomes this mantra that when I think of Mo, I think of this message. By extension, it becomes easy for people to also recite that message for you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

So it's like we see with the big brands where you have the big brand, and there's that catchphrase or that message, and you go, ah, that's that pizza company, if you will, or it's that cola company, if you will. See how I'm trying to be generic here. So given that a lot of times we communicate with words, you know, we tell story with word stories with words, why is it that at times stories just with pictures are more memorable?

SPEAKER_01 23:45

Yeah. I'm sure there's a very deep scientific answer to this, but I'll keep it simple. Just thinking about archaeology and scientists, and you know, the you find paintings in caves, you you You can go there or you can go to neuroscience where there's a lot of research and all coming up where the speed of communication or the receiving message is faster when you speak in pictures. This data supports all this, but I don't have to go that deep. I can just go to make it personal, right? If you're listening to this podcast, you think about something that you learned recently, and I'm aware that everyone is not a visual learner, not everyone learns that way. Some are more experiential, but vigils, whether visual learner or not, visuals at set accelerate understanding. You can answer for yourself. When was the last time you you saw something that stick? And you can't you can't trace it back to words, but you can trace it back to a particular image in your mind. Yeah, it's it's powerful, man. I have the five senses, and when you talk about helping people to see something, there's the the literal um sight, but it's also the imaginative. That part I feel is underused and is so powerful.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

So you're almost trying to create like a multi-sensory experience to have that message like drive home and be memorable and just stay retained in the in the in the memory bank, if you will. Yes. So you talk about the power of having a childlike imagination. So talk me through that. How does that play a part in your work?

SPEAKER_01 25:30

I want to say it was around 2021 where I was in a rut. I was creatively, I just crashed professionally, uh, personally, there was a lot going on. And for some reason, on one of my walks, I just looked up and saw the clouds doing something. It's like, hey, that looks like a fish. Yeah. And it immediately reminded me of an exercise I did as a child growing up in Barbados where I would just stare at the clouds, see things, and just keep it moving. It was a hobby. And that day I saw it recently, um 2021, 2022, around there, I took a picture of what I saw. I sketched on it, I posted on social media and invited people to tell me what they saw. And Mo, this started this little movement. It's not massive as yet, but I got people from all of the world, started to send me clouds from their region, from London, India, I mean Australia. People in different time zones are sending me their images of one, what they saw in a sketch, and just clouds that were interested. So that made me realize that these little childhood experiences, for me, it was a clouds, and this one happened to be very universal. There are clues in your childhood. For everyone, childhood might not be pleasant memories, but even in difficult times, you your imagination always took you to someplace pleasant, like you're always escaping that exercise, that method of moving your reality into someplace different. That I find is something that folks can really bring into business, like before they plan. Just make some time to dream. This is what I'm doing actively in my business right now, and I lead with the cloud challenge, the cloud challenge.com, if you want to check it out, and get these business leaders to really believe that they are creative because they're using their imagination in such a child-like way, and that seamlessly goes into the deep work of the visuals and what they see in their processes and frameworks. So it's a beautiful through line that I have discovered, and I'm I'm I'm going with it, man. I don't know where I'm going with this, but I'm going there.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

Let's play name that cloud. If I'm assuming that people see different things when they look at the clouds, what are five things that people have said that they've seen in the clouds?

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Yeah, good one. A lot of people see cars, for example. Not sure why, but our brains go to cars, and I'm talking about adults here, right? Fish, different types of fish, sea creatures, aircrafts like uh helicopters, and their drawings are looking different, but collectively it feels like people all over the world default to these things. Yeah, it's fascinating to watch, actually.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

So if you have like a hundred people look at the same cloud, is it likely they'll see 80, 90, 100 different things, or do you tend to have patterns?

SPEAKER_01 28:37

Oh, this is so cool. I did this presentation last year in Delaware Beach with a group of 50 to 60 business uh coaches, and it was a three-day workshop. My session was the very first of the first day, and what we did was a cloud challenge experience, right? We had the same cloud, and I documented what they drew. I took all of the exercises, all of the sketches, and I did this collage and did a little study and realized that 75% of the people saw the same type of thing, but each image was different. It was a unique expression from everyone, like there are no wrong answers, right? And that told me two things. One, yes, some people have exercised their imagination to the point, the frequency of going beyond the norm. Like they don't sketch this first thing they're seeing in their mind's eye. And also, two, that everybody saw something. And I think that's the biggest lesson. I'm sure half of the room that raised their hand and said, Hey, I don't think I'm creative. That was the first question. It's like they all prove themselves wrong. They are creative, they may not have a professional creative role, or they may not be artistic, which is different, but they all have the ability to solve problems, and that's what creativity is.

SPEAKER_00 29:58

So just to clarify, you mentioned Delray Beach. That's in Florida for our listeners.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

You also said that when people looked at the clouds, 75% of them saw the same thing. What was that? What is 75% of the people see? Well, they saw cars. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

Cars and fish. Yeah, and even split there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:23

Okay. The fish for driving the cars, or the there you go. No, no.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

I need to give you that cloud and see what you sketched because you you're you're stacking concepts there.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

Yeah, it's very fascinating. I've heard of it from yourself, and I think I've seen it from from LinkedIn as well. Also from yourself. So it's probably one that I will do that challenge at some point, plus or minus still raid beach. Maybe I'll go all the way there into it or not. Um you mentioned something else that was so interesting. You said there are people that I paraphrase here, there are people that put their hand up and they say, I'm not creative. Yeah. If people are so sure that they're not creative, what do you do or what do you say to show them that perhaps they do have a creative own in them? Or do some are some people just not creative? Alright, quick pause. Hi, it's most salami, and I wanted to share something that I've created for you. If you're a successful entrepreneur and you feel stuck, overwhelmed, or unsure what to focus on next, I've put together a strategic recalibration toolkit to help you restore clarity, sharpen your decisions, and protect your momentum without adding complexity. Go to most lami.com forward slash toolkit to download it. That's mostlami.com forward slash toolkit, where you'll get three concise frameworks that are used with high-level founders to regain direction and confidence. You can grab it now at mostslami.com forward slash toolkit. I'll link it in the show notes. Okay, back to the episode.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Well, first of all, I tell them that quote, hey, it's not it's not about whether you think you're creative or not, is it's how you're creative. Every little situation that you're faced with, whether it's a business or personal, you have a challenge. Just give yourself enough time to think how to solve the challenge, how to cut through the challenge. I hate to go back to 2020 where there was this global pandemic. Yeah. There's a lot of hurt and darkness around that time. I experienced some personally. And at the same time, there was this wave of creativity in not just my region where I was in the world, but globally, people were finding ways to keep healthy, exercise creatively, lifting things in their house for their gym, schooling their kids at home. I think creativity went through the roof globally in 2020, coming 2022, 2028, around that era. For the person though, who I'm in contact with and I'm trying to encourage, I give them that cloud challenge to do. Honestly, there are two things that happen. I give them space to just draw what they see right away, immediately. Don't think about it, just draw what you see. And then I ask them to pause before sketching. Close your eyes, slow things down, and imagine what you see. And by slowing things down, because life is just so fast-paced, is like this breath of fresh air where they are forgetting that they're this C-suite executive. They're in the corporate setting, they're forgetting all that, and they're allowing themselves to tap into some younger version of themselves that most likely was very active dreaming things, you know. There's something there, Mo, where the second drawing is always so much more thoughtful and beautiful, actually, than the first. There's something there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:06

I wonder what the science is behind why people see fish and cars, like the majority of people. I wonder what that represents.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

Very good question. I know we we feed off our our environments, and around Delray Beach, Florida, this is in the US, it's a beach, and there's water around, maybe the fish came from there. A lot of beach life. And the cars maybe is from someone who is, you know, in the city kind of like your background. If I lived in your background with a lot of skyscrapers, I'm sure things with wheels would come top of my fascinating people, actually. Um things are wrong in us, um, influence our subconscious.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

100%. And this sparks that that creativity going back in time when you had that sort of moment of I want to really go for what I want to do, which is you know, creativity and helping people with visual design to really put on paper on concept their messaging through design. What was the mindset shift that had to happen for you to just go for it? Because again, a lot of people sort of wait in the wings and you just went for it. What's that mindset shift that happened for you?

SPEAKER_01 35:26

Yeah, yeah. I can trace it back now to just belief in myself. I know it sounds self-serving, but honestly, is and I used to think that okay, I can postpone or delay things, and that's just me not believing. But what is actually happening is I'm growing my doubt at the same time. So imagine belief and doubt are these two creatures in your mind. Just imagine for a second. I can't help it, Mo. But every time you delay action on your dream, every time you don't believe in yourself, you are feeding this monster. And the opposite is true. When you take a bold step towards your dream, whatever micro step, whatever that looks like, you're starving this monster. So it's like this seesaw thing that I realize personally, and I've seen it in a lot of our closest friends as well. Every time you take that bold step towards your dream, making a hobby out of it or or having a conversation with someone who is doing the thing or being where you want to go, whatever the dream is. Maybe it's a dream job. You know, whatever step you take towards that dream is you're you're you're killing or starving the doubt that is so crippling, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 36:51

And I'm guessing that well, you would have had to step outside of your comfort zone, and how important is it to live outside the comfort zone in the in the direction of the goals that you want.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

Yeah. Yeah, well, for me, just talking to this podcast, me being on a podcast, this is maybe three years I've been doing this, and this is a complete opposite to how I prefer my life to be, to be honest. Um, so this is the act of bravery where I'm saying yes to podcasts, I'm sharing my thoughts freely. Am I the best at what I do? Maybe not. Am I the best designer? For sure not. But the unique angle at which I am approaching visual design is like I have enough confidence to say yes, to believe in myself in this area, and I'm just betting against myself all the time. And then there's this secondary thing that we mentioned where I'm talking about clouds, like it took me so long to be okay talking about clouds and imagination within a business setting because it's the obvious, oh, and this is where the doubt comes in. Like, you you're not gonna be taken seriously, Phil. Well, what is this childlike thing you're talking about? Like, are you are you kidding me right now? Like, people trying to make money here. What how is this gonna help someone? So that I had to push through, to be honest with you, and really be confident and believe in the idea that before you plan any kind of strategy for your whatever you're building, you should make time to dream. And I've seen it over and over now within the last year, where leaders who give enough time using their childlike imagination, I call it, the the the rewards are great, man. Like you you go to next level when you come to execute your business ideas and strategies. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

What I'm hearing is that if we reach into our childlike imagination, if you will, as an adult, that is such a great spot for creativity. Is that a fair comment?

SPEAKER_01 39:07

100%, yes.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

What's a key takeaway for the listener listening to this? What's one key lesson, one key takeaway that you'd want them to take from this conversation?

SPEAKER_01 39:18

Yeah, yeah. The first thing that comes to mind is don't sell yourself short. Like you are creative. Believing that you're creative, I think is one of the best gifts you can give yourself. Because everything goes upstream from there or downstream, depending on how you look at it. Everything flows from that point of you acknowledging that yes, I can give myself enough time to find an angle, find a way to even uh like a niche, whether it's business or personal, give yourself that gift of I am creative, I can do this. How can I do this? We don't know all the answers yet, but I can do it. Just tiggling and knowing that you can do it leads you to the next step and then the next step.

SPEAKER_00 40:05

And what would you say was a simple visual thinking shift that Libner can apply to their next presentation or or to their messaging that could make it more impactful?

SPEAKER_01 40:17

I feel like saying things simple is a lost art. So say it simple and show it simple. Say it simple. I know there's a lot of uh usage of AI going around. I use it sometimes myself, but I'm challenging myself more and more to start with my original thinking, start with my words, like how would Phil, the same Phil who grew up in Barbados, who migrated to the US, who is now serving clients globally and have all this buffet of this array of experiences, how can I say this simple? And once you say the thing simple, like a child, you know, everything points back to this child, childlike language, childlike imagination, childlike language. Once you can say it simple, then you can you can then defer to your copywriters or your team to add a little more polish to it. But the essence and the core is there once you say it simple, then show it simple. Think napkin sketch, think just pen and paper. You know, if you can do that yourself as a business leader before you hand it off to your team, sketch the idea on a napkin, a piece of paper. I feel like you're giving them the essence, you're giving them the heart that they can then add flesh and bones to.

SPEAKER_00 41:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

So that's the a very tactical thing that I'm I'm doing myself, and I've advised a few people now to try, and it's working, man.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

A great philosopher once said, it's not how creative you are, it's how you are creative. And um, Phil, how do we learn more about you? Find find you.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

Yeah. Phil Lashley.com, P-H-I-L, L-A-S-H-L-E-Y.com. You can go there to see uh more rounded, I you get a better idea as to who I'm serving and the language around it, samples there. But you can also follow me on LinkedIn where I go a lot deeper with clients. I showcase studies, and I really try to feature clients as as much as I can. I know it's not really common and it's very difficult to do, but I feel like like this business is not about me, really. It's about showing them and their transformation and their stories and and kind of like just equalizing everyone to this playing field where they feel like they're creative and oh, they can do this too. I can do this too. You know, Phil explained this so easy, I can do this too. So LinkedIn is the place is Phil Ashley, you know, just search me on LinkedIn. And if you're curious about the Cloud Challenge, you can also go to the CloudChallenge.com, follow all the socials, and just keep up with what is quietly building right there.

SPEAKER_00 43:09

All of these links will be in the show notes as well. Phil, this has been awesome. Thank you so much for all your insights and your creativity today and your story about the bus and all that, all the above.

SPEAKER_01 43:22

Story about the bus. Thank you for having me. I'm so glad that you um have me along in your journey as well. I've been following you for quite a bit, and I cannot wait for your audiences to really see more about the value that you bring, man. Thank you for sharing your gifts to the world too.

SPEAKER_00 43:41

Awesome. Ciao, all the best. Thank you. Thank you for listening to Purpose Driven Success with Most Alarming. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave a review. It's one of the best ways to help others discover the show. You can find links and resources and show notes at our website. And if today's episode inspired you, check out one of our other insight-filled, value-packed episodes. Next week we'll have another amazing guest, so stay tuned for even more real stories and actionable insights. Work on your mindset, work on your skill set, and always move in the direction of the result you want before you see the result you want. And until next time, do the best you can consistently. Ciao.