Episode 008: Nervous System Mastery & Leadership Courage with Tanya Anne Chavez

Purpose Driven Success with Mo Salami

Episode 008: Nervous System Mastery & Leadership Courage with Tanya Anne Chavez

Episode Description:

In this episode, Mo Salami sits down with leadership expert Tanya Anne Chavez — executive coach, UC Berkeley lecturer, and former U.S. Air Force jumpmaster — to explore how courage, fear, and discomfort shape exceptional leadership. 

Drawing on her experience teaching cadets to skydive solo, Tanya reveals how leaders can recognize and regulate their fight-or-flight response, build resilience through intentional practice, and create environments that empower teams to take smart risks. 

Whether you’re leading a team through change, scaling your leadership impact, or navigating personal transitions, you’ll discover actionable tools for staying calm, clear, and courageous under pressure. 

Tune in for insights that transform fear into data and discomfort into growth.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

One of the greatest gifts you can give a team is a regulated nervous system. And the first step for that is creating more space for yourself. And it doesn't have to be big, but just trust that those small jumps build over time.

SPEAKER_02 0:19

Hi, this is Mo Salami and welcome to the show. Today's guest, Tanya, is a leadership expert and an executive coach whose greatest leadership training didn't happen in a classroom or a conference room. It happened, wait for it, jumping out of airplanes. As a jump master at the US Air Force Academy, she taught cadets how to summon the courage to skydive solo to earn their military jump wings. This is an experience that shaped how she helps leaders today stay calm, stay clear, and stay courageous when the stakes are high. Tanya currently lectures at UC Berkeley and also lectures and coaches, I should say, leaders at companies such as Google, PayPal, and Applied Materials. Welcome to the show, Tanya. Thanks for joining us today.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Well, thank you for having me, Mo.

SPEAKER_02 1:09

Let's start at the beginning. Share a little bit about yourself and the story that brought you here today.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

So you mentioned skydiving was my training ground for leadership. But the funny thing is, I was doing it to hide. I was super nervous about being in a leadership position. I was terrified of being critiqued and being seen in those roles. And so I thought, you know what? Skydiving is a lot safer than that. So I tried out to be on the Wings of Blue, which is the parachute team for the Air Force. It's their official team, and thought this will be way easier. And little did I know that that taught me almost everything I needed to know to lead myself and then to also lead others. So so yeah, I started out as trying to hide from leadership and then it was being thrown right into it on the skydiving team.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Was there like a pivotal moment where you went skydiving equals leadership or as an analogous to leadership? What was that pivotal moment?

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Well, I will take you right into the bathroom with me. Don't worry, it's all PG. I was getting ready to be a jump master for my very first time with real students. I wasn't training anymore. And I was so scared that I thought I was gonna throw up. I remember pacing in the bathroom just out of control, nervous. But there came a point where I was like, okay, you know what? I need to get out there. They're waiting for me. They're in the gear-up area. So I remember walking out, and it was one of those like swinging doors that has that old school, really thin rectangle window with like the X's in it, the little black X's. So I remember peeking in there and I could see the rows of students lined up with their parachutes on, and they were terrified. It was their first skydive. It was solo, and you could just see it on their faces. And I remember in that moment thinking, I have to get myself together for them. I need to go out there, stand in my own power, and be able to hold space for them while they are doing something extremely terrifying. And so that moment, it didn't become about me anymore, but it was about them. So I remember taking a deep breath, swinging the door open, still being nervous, but going through the emotions, starting my safety briefing. And then all of a sudden, I was in it. As I started to notice what they needed and what I was there to help them do, it helped me step into meeting them where they're at, stepping into being my own jump master and figuring out my own style. And I remember that moment so clearly, even years later, because it shifted the way I think about holding space for people in a leadership position as well. Because my team may not be jumping out of airplanes, but they might feel like they are, depending on what I'm asking them to do. And if I want the most out of them, I really want them operating at that edge. So that was such a um very specific pivotal moment for me that stuck with me 20 years later.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

How has this whole skydiving experience helped you regulate your nervous system? You know, the whole flight and flight response and that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Yeah. So the very at the very basic level, it helped me recognize what my fight or flight symptoms were. So skydiving is one of those few circumstances where it truly kicks on. Your fight or flight system is going to truly kick on, right? And so I started to notice what that, how that manifested for me. So for me, it was I would get a dry mouth, I would get sweaty palms, my heart was racing. And so I could start to recognize when I was having one of those moments that my nervous system is in fight or flight. And so if I fast forward into my corporate life or even life as a parent, there are so many times that you wouldn't expect where I have those same feelings get turned on. It happened when my boss would ask me to come into his office, or it was time for performance review season. It happens when my kids are calling my name too many times in a row. So just being able to notice when you're in fight or flight and then being able to switch it and say, you know what, I'm in fight or flight. Let me figure out how to switch into flow. That was such a big game changer for me when I moved into higher stakes moments. That sounds weird. I'm talking about other things being higher stakes and skydiving, but when I would move into higher stakes moments, you know, throughout my life, I'm able to notice it and then move through it, move past it in a calm and collected way.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

What's your process to go from fight or flight to rest and relaxation or flow? Like what do you do?

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Yeah. So I think for each person, it's a little bit different. And honestly, it can be a little different for even myself, depending on what the situation looks like. So if I find myself in that moment, I look for an anchor. So what is that thing that can slow down time for me, slow down thinking for me, whether it's my breath, it could be touch, right? Like whether I'm holding something, right? Like I showed you before we we jumped on this call, right? Is it that I'm holding something and I'm I'm really noticing the details of what I'm holding? It could be visual, right? I remember this very clearly when I was asking my boss for a raise for the first time. I remember really zoning in on his shirt and what his the patterns were. So all that to say is I'm zooming in on a very specific sense and a very specific item so that when I zoom back out, I can see things more clearly and make a better decision.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

And do you use this in your leadership training as well?

SPEAKER_00 6:57

I do, yes. So first we talk about even just noticing your fight or flight symptoms, right? So if I had to zoom out even further, and the first thing that I help people do is take their discomfort and turn it into data. So for me, the skydiving, I collected so much data in the way that I show up in how fear manifests for me, in the way fight or flight kicks on for me. And then how do I overcome that? And the thing that's cool with skydiving, I saw it with myself and I saw it with the students that I would teach, is how amazing it feels on the other side, right? Because you have to get through that discomfort, you have to move through it, and you get to feel this amazing transformation. So I know on the other side of discomfort is going to be this really cool sense of accomplishment, achievement, joy. There's so much on the other side of that. So that is the first thing we do is like, how do we start to notice those things in our body? And then what is your anchor? What is your go-to that you can be practicing all the time, even if you're not in fight or flight? What can you practice all the time that helps you regulate yourself so that you can go through anything that's just uncomfortable and then reap the benefits on the other side?

SPEAKER_02 8:12

So I guess traditionally we always say when it comes to fight or flight or rest and relaxation, as I called it, we always say, well, you know, it's your body thinking there's a saber-toothed tiger out to get you, and yours is real, like jumping out of jumping out of an airplane. But a lot of times people want to stay in their comfort zone, and that leads to them not taking action. So how do you communicate across to people that it's okay to have that fight or flight feeling and and then now let's just work through it, get you to the other side?

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Yeah. So I think the key is to find the small moments that might seem insignificant, so you can build up the courage muscle once the thing actually shows up. So for me, again, this is gonna sound extreme. That was skydiving because that felt safer to me than being in a leadership position. And as I started to go through the, as I started to progress on the team, I found myself being able to say yes to things that I usually would hide from. And so when I think about that going forward, I found myself, I eventually got to the point where it's like uncomfortable to be comfortable because you are practicing so often. And I would, I would find myself wanting to try things that were different in order to collect more data on my discomfort, if you will. Yeah. So for example, whether it's like something, it could be anything, right? Like you're trying a new hobby. It could be you don't like to ask for directions. I personally don't like asking people in a store like where something is. I don't know why I feel like I'm bothering them or something. So I start to notice like, where do I have these moments where my fight or fight is kicking in and I move through it anyway? They might seem insignificant, but you're teaching your body to move through it anyway. So then when the bigger moment comes, you're able to tap into that resource, if you will.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

That is just so, so, so great. Just really tapping into that readiness for that, you know, even preparation for that, for that bigger moment. So you sound like someone that's really resilient in general. And I just want you to share, if you could, what's something what have you overcome to get to where you are today? Other than jumping out of a plane, of course.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 10:29

Multiple times.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Yes, yes. So it's probably I was almost like crippling shy when I was a kid, to the point where I wish I had the picture with me so I could show this, but I was scared to talk to people, right? I was, I was just terrified of everything. And so I have this picture where my parents were going to take a picture of me next to a ninja turtle. And they said, Well, go ask them for a picture. And I was like, I can't. And I got that same feeling that I got skydiving, right? I get the little lump in my throat, my mouth would go dry. And so I have a picture of me standing next to this ninja turtle who's paying attention to another child. And I'm just sitting there smiling, like, sweet, I got my picture with the ninja turtle. So, like, even something as small as that was extremely hard for me. Tile that on with being in the military or being a military family. The people around me were moving all the time. I was moving all the time. I moved to the US for high school. And I remember practicing, how am I going to like ask people to have lunch with them? What am I gonna do if they say no? So it was this sort of constant practice, even before I got to the skydiving team, where I would just put myself in these without even realizing it, looking back, I see it now, putting myself in these uncomfortable situations. So, all that to say, I was like, I need to be around people who are going to put me out of my comfort zone because I then I can't get stuck. I have to go with this flow. And so uh I ended up deciding to apply for the military academies and chose the Air Force Academy for my undergrad. And that really changed the trajectory of my life because they're constantly pulling you out of your comfort zone and you have no choice but to go with it and figure out how to thrive in that type of environment.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

You're saying so many things that are just so game-changing, just for forward progress. And I really want to touch on this some more, which is what does it mean to you to live outside of your comfort zone? Like, what is that distinction? How does life change?

SPEAKER_00 12:34

Yeah, I think one of the biggest things is you change what you think is possible. So the goals that I had for myself that I thought I was capable of before the skydiving team drastically changed after the skydiving team. So before I was like, you know, I think I'm just gonna go for this safe little job over here. I just I would play extremely small. And there were so many avenues that I didn't think were even open to me. But then once I got done, all of a sudden I'm saying yes to things. I'm wanting to do things because I want to leave this legacy. I want to feel like I like at the risk of sounding cheesy, that I squeezed all the juice out of life as I possibly could. So I wanted to experience as much as I could. And I definitely would not have gotten out of the military, made the jump, because that's a scary thing for people. Like if you talk to people in the military, most of us are, even if we want to move into the civilian or the private sector, it's a scary jump for us. But I was able to make that leap. Now I'm making the leap into entrepreneurship. And so all these things I never would have thought possible. I had a very different view of what my life was going to be before I started like living outside of my comfort zone, if you will.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

Mentioned about going from skydiving. And by the way, we're going to get to the open door in a sec. You mentioned about going from skydiving to entrepreneurship. For you, was that like a moment or did that take some time to make that transition?

SPEAKER_00 14:05

You know, I wanted it to take time. I was in a corporate job that I really enjoyed. I was teaching at UC Berkeley part-time. And I always knew I wanted to go into leadership and executive coaching because I love the idea of helping people live on that edge and create the environment for their team to live on that edge too. Because I've been part of so many insanely high-performing teams throughout my career. I worked with F-15 starting out, and then I worked with unmanned aircraft, and then I moved into doing software implementations, which if anyone's been through any of those, it is, it is quite the lift sometimes to get people moving on that type of change. And I'm so glad I was able to experience those, those things because I was, like I said, living outside my comfort zone. Now, when it came to entrepreneurship, I was like, oh, I'm going to have this nice slow build. I'll have my corporate job, I'll do a side hustle and everything. But my husband, he had the opportunity to move to Denver. And at first I was like, no, no, no, no. I love my job. I don't want to leave. But instead, I ripped the golden handcuffs off and I just was like, you know what? I'm going to trust the free fall here. I'm going to just take, take the move, start my business, and let's see what happens. And I have to tell you, so many things opened up because I stayed open to possibility and moved to Denver, trusted my gut, took the risk. And now I'm pulling things into my executive coaching practice, like indoor skydiving, that I never would have done any if I stayed in California. Because I just, I wouldn't have seen those options in front of me.

SPEAKER_02 15:37

So if someone's listening to this think and they want to take the leap, there's that next thing they want to do. You're saying that there's an argument to just go for it versus wait five years.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Yes. I say that cautiously because I do think it's also important to have enough preparation. So, like if I am going to use the skydiving analogy, one thing that makes the Air Force Academy so unique is we train people for only three days. They get three days of ground training, and it's the only place in the world where your first skydive is 100% solo and you're pulling your own parachute. So you're not static line, but you actually have to pull your own ripcord. We have so many like processes and procedures and things you have to memorize. There's certain things in place to be able to make that happen. So you still do need to have certain, I don't know if I want to call them safety nuts, because at the end of the day, you're jumping out of the plate. It's going to be scary. You cannot escape that, right? If you're making a leap, you're making a change, there are things that are going to come up for you. That's not going to go away. But what can you put in place to help you move through it anyway?

SPEAKER_02 16:45

I get that the whole analogy of a five to nine as you do your nine to five and then sort of transition across, but essentially take the leap initially, but not an entire leap, maybe like a hop, hop and a skip until it becomes a leap.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

And then also not stay there. It's easy to just stay there and saying, well, I keep taking all these little jumps. But at some point you have to face the discomfort and take and let go of the airplane. At some point you have to do that.

SPEAKER_02 17:11

So how did jumping out of an airplane take you from fearful to fearless, if you will? Hi its most salami. Quick question. What's the next breakthrough that you're aiming for, but you haven't yet figured out how to unlock? If you're an impact-driven overachiever, ready to master high performance without the burnout or the guesswork, I'm offering a complimentary 30-minute high performance coaching session to help you clarify your goals, reset your strategy, and identify the next steps to scale your impact and your fulfillment on your terms. In this session, we'll look at what's holding you back, what strengths you can double down on, and how to frame your high performance journey for even better results. Go to mostsalami.com forward slash coaching to schedule your free 30-minute session. That's mostsalami.com forward slash coaching. And let's get you moving. I'll link it in the show notes.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Yeah. I think the biggest revelation for me is that the fear doesn't ever really go away. A lot of the same things make me nervous. I just know what to do with it. So I'll take you to the this, I think this might be a good place to kind of explain the stand in the door concept. When you jump out of an airplane or when you watch a video of it, most of the time what you see is somebody just diving out. And it's almost like you can bypass the fear and just jump. What we have people do is, you know, we have the door open, they're sitting in front of the door, and then we tell them to stand in the door. And that's a very key phrase because that triggers a series of steps for the student. So now the student is getting up and they're going right hand, right foot, left hand, left foot, and they're hanging out of the airplane. And then they check in. And at this point, they're usually a little scared. So some of their body might still be in the airplane. So as a jump master, I physically push their hips out. So as much of their body is in the airstream as possible. We want them to be as exposed to the elements as we can. And then they check in and then we tell them to go. And they're hanging out of this airplane. They look directly at the prop and they say prop up, down, and then they let go of the airplane and they go into their sequence. They go arch thousand, two thousand, and they have a whole sequence until they pull their parachute. And the reason why I say that is you have to be able to summon the courage to face and sit in that discomfort in order to take the jump. And so what I'm getting at with that is that discomfort, whether it's fear, judgment, whatever it is, whatever that discomfort or that uncomfortable feeling is, you don't get to bypass it. And the sooner you can accept that, the easier it is to move through it because you're like, that's just not going to go away. That's just what life is. And if I want to make the most out of this, I have to learn how to be okay with that.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

I'm so curious about your indoor sky dive-in that you use as part of your leadership training.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Yes. So it gives you a taste of some of the military experience without having to actually jump out of an airplane. So you get the sensation of really doing something different. And one thing I want to kind of call back to is the military is known for producing people who can thrive under pressure. But it's not like we're special or anything like that. We just train for it. That is the biggest difference, is we train to be able to stay calm, cool, and collected under pressure. So the wind tunnel provides this full body experience, if you will, that you can tap into after this is long over how do I face the unknown and how do I thrive in it and find joy in it? And what do I, what do I do with that on the other side? So this, the um wings of blue, when we do, when we put people through their initial training, one of the steps, like I mentioned, we teach them this routine that they go through. So that way they have this sort of muscle memory going. We do a lot of things to help them get exposure to what it's like to jump out of an airplane before they actually do it. And one of that is the wind tunnel as well. Get them some exposure, get some muscle memory. Again, it's not going to take away the fear of the actual jump, but it gets you enough exposure to start to see what that's like. So that's exactly what we do in the wind tunnel. We learn about and we do some reflection on okay, what does it look like for you to be in fight or flight? What is your specific comfort container for you? Like what is keeping you comfortable? And what I find a lot of leaders, it's expertise. They get so good at what they're doing. They're used to being the go-to person that they're scared to try something new at the fear of looking silly. So uh we try to break, we break all that stuff down. And then we get into the wind tunnel and really try something different and then debrief that. So they start to notice like, okay, what are my fight or flight triggers? How do I set the right conditions for myself so I can live outside my comfort zone more often? And what is the next stand-in-the-door moment that I need to take immediately following this workshop?

SPEAKER_02 22:33

So could you describe what is the wind tunnel exactly? Could you describe it?

SPEAKER_00 22:37

Yes, yes. So the wind tunnel is basically this gigantic tube that has these giant fan that's blowing to help simulate skydiving. So rather than falling through the air, you step through into the wind tunnel and you are immediately flying. So you are in the air flying. I had one person go through and he was saying how, you know, he clearly doesn't remember what it's like to learn how to walk. But that's what it feels like. Because he's like, it's so disorienting. You make one little movement and all of a sudden you're all over the place. But it's also, like I said, it's a lot of fun, but it helps remind you of what does it mean to grow and what does it mean to be new at something and have a little fun doing it.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

But once they've done this exercise, what are, say, two, three examples of where they can use that in practice in life?

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Yeah. So I have, I'll give you two specific examples that that people have used coming out of this workshop. Sure. I had one person who she realized she kept saying no to something, not because it wasn't aligned, but because she was scared. And it was about teaching, or she was going to present to a group of high school students. And I saw her a week later and she was like, you know what? I finally said yes because I realized at worst case scenario, it's not the right thing for me. But at least I can use discomfort as data and say, what are my fight or flight responses? How do I move through this? And she can at least use the experience to help her towards something else, right? But then she realized, I actually really, really loved it. And I'm so glad I finally said yes after a year of saying no. So she's unlocked a new um public speaking thing, which was like completely scary, scary for her. And then I had another person, the CEO, we talked about how do you create the environment so other people can take their jumps, if you will. And so I always view this as a leader's job is creating these conditions so that people feel like they can step out of their comfort zone, they can take smart risks, and that they can grow. So you can get more out of your team, you'll have more fun while you're doing it, and you're building a lot of camaraderie along the way. So her big thing was we talked about how do you move through uncertainty? And she realized they're in a lot of really tense situations. They deal with human trafficking. So it's there's a lot at stake in a lot of the things that they do. And the tensions will get high, but they're not productive. So she went back to the office and created an what she called an unstuck box where she put different like games they could play to help diffuse the tension. They figure out how to create more space between the thing that they're trying to solve and then the their response so they can make a better, more clear decision.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

And I know you mentioned that coverage is something that can be taught. What does that look like in leadership in general?

SPEAKER_00 25:31

Yeah. So it's funny because a lot of times people will say, what got you here won't get you there. But the ironic thing in leadership is most people became a leader, got promoted into a leadership position because of the risks they were willing to take as an individual contributor.

unknown 25:49

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

So they are it's it feels safer when you're individual contributor. You have the, you know, your team around you, like your peers around you. You have you're younger in your career, so you feel like maybe you can take a little bit more risks. But then you start to rise up and you're like, what do I do? I don't have the same camaraderie, I don't have the same circumstances that I used to. And so I think the first step is recognizing that you are setting the example and you need to be able to summon your own courage again, because that is what's going to unlock your team to do the same. And now you're getting even more out of them. Um, and you're creating this high performance environment. So, one is doing that for yourself, and then two is creating the right conditions so that your team feels safe taking these risks as well.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

How does the leader unlock courage for themself, unlock it to now pass it on onto the team? And I'm talking about in real time, you know, there's a moment when similar to yourself, when you're about to jump out of a plane, probably a bit concerned in the beginning stages, but then you sort of have to set that aside because you're serving other people. How does the leader sort of anchor?

SPEAKER_00 26:59

Yeah. So I there's a couple things that kind of come to mind for me. The first one is they're doing this in low-stakes environments. So a lot of times when we work with c with clients, they're like, you know what, I'm gonna try this with my family first, or I'm gonna try this with uh this place that I volunteer at first. And it gets them the data to show that it's not as scary as they think it is. So they can take it back to their team where there is potential of losing political capital. So what do they, how do they show up for that? So practicing it in these other environments, not not isolating it just to the workplace.

unknown 27:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

And then the second thing would be similar to what I talked about earlier about focus on the person, right? The person in front of you instead of yourself. So it's easy when you're nervous to be like, but I'm nervous. You don't think of that as high self-orientation because you're nervous, you want to perform, you want to do well. But even being nervous is a high self-orientation and that does not serve the person in front of you. So if you can shift the spotlight, when you notice you're you're thinking about yourself too much, like, oh my gosh, I'm nervous that this decision is the wrong one, or I don't know how my peers are going to think of this, or what is the executive team gonna think of this? If you can shift the spotlight and start to really pay attention to the other person and notice what they need, hear what they're saying, and figure out what they need to take that jump in that moment, that starts to melt the nerves in a way that's hard to explain until you try it, right? Because it's like, I just focus on the other person. But when you see them progress, it does something for you as a leader to be like, oh, I am doing my job now because now I'm helping them move forward.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

So I assume that some of the nervousness dissipates when they're focusing outside of themselves. One school of thought is I'm in fight or flight, I'm nervous now because I'm about to perform. And another school of thought could be I'm in flight or flight, but I'm not nervous, I'm excited now. So do you work for leaders in terms of reframing in that way?

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Yes. Actually, one of the things I talk about a lot when you're setting the right conditions. So I have this um this framework that I'll share with folks called the jump conditions. So you can create the space for people to step up, basically. And one of the pillars in in jump, so the stands for mistakes lead to mastery. And it's all about how do you reframe mistakes so you can make more of them faster and not feel the sting so much. So the example I love to use is when I was in a fighter squadron, they literally wear their mistakes as a badge of honor. So when you think about call signs, right? I'll use Top Nun as a reference. Maverick, Bob, Goose, 99% of the time, that call sign is based on a mistake they made when they were young. But they want to take the sting out of mistakes because they debrief every single flight down to the last detail in the pursuit of excellence. And if you're not calling yourself out, calling your superiors out, calling your direct reports out, if you aren't doing that, you're the weird one.

SPEAKER_02 30:12

Right. So just to just to back up right quick, what is a call sign? I just want to make sure everyone knows what that is.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

So a call sign, uh, you get named when you're in a fighter squadron. I guess other flying squadrons do it too, but my my uh experience has been with a fighter squadron. And so people will get up all around you and they will tell stories about you. And again, it's usually mistakes that you've made. And based on those, they will come up with a call sign for you. And so it always sounds cool, right? You see, like being like, Hey, what's up, Maverick, or what's up? Uh, my husband's call signs midnight. What's up, midnight? Sounds cool. But behind that is really a mistake that they've made.

unknown 30:51

Right.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

Again, like I said, when they were younger, right? And so the way that I would equate this into the corporate world or into the private sector is if you could think about the mistake that you're gonna make, instead of worrying about what is going to, how is it gonna feel right off the bat? It's gonna feel uncomfortable, right? But we already determined that discomfort is a part of this, right? So, how do you just get more comfortable in it? Of course it's gonna be uncomfortable. But five years from now, what is that battle story you're going to tell about this mistake that you're going to make? Like, can you create the story that you're gonna tell? Because all the great leaders have those battle stories to inspire, motivate the next generation. So, what is that for you? And if you're not making enough mistakes, you're not gonna have enough stories, you're not gonna be inspirational. So, we talk about how do you reframe your mistakes battles as battle stories, right? As about these battle scars that you are using as inspiration.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

But your husband's call sign is midnight. You know where I'm going with this, right? What's your call sign? And what's your story? Hi, it's Mo Salami. Quick question. What would it feel like to finally have a predictable, scalable online revenue engine in your business? One that reliably brings in 10k plus months without chaos. If you're an established business owner and you want a dependable online revenue stream that truly complements your authority and your brand, I've opened up a limited number of free taste of strategy sessions for listeners. This isn't a sales call, it's a 30-minute strategy session where I'll help you clarify your biggest leverage point, assess your current model, and uncover what your next 90-day scalable revenue plan could look like. To apply and to see if you qualify, go to mostsalami.com forward slash consulting. That's mostsalami.com forward slash consulting and submit your application for the free taste session. I'll link it in the show notes.

SPEAKER_00 32:47

My call sign is Nyx. So as in the Greek goddess of the night, because his call sign is midnight.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

How do you spell NYX?

SPEAKER_00 32:54

NYX.

SPEAKER_02 32:56

NYX, okay.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

Yep. And so the week before I was named, so I had my naming survey uh ceremony in Las Vegas, which is we were at a huge multinational training event called Red Flag. And so I was named there. And a week before my husband proposed to me. He didn't tell anybody. Nobody knew. They just started noticing a ring on my finger. And they're like, wait a minute. You are sitting here in this squadron. We put our lives in each other's hands. Like, we are so tight-knit. And we didn't even know you guys were getting engaged. So it was for me, this was this big lesson on how do I bring my full self to the table? What is what do it allowed me to think about like how do I trust people in the workplace and how I need to also open up on my personal life too, right? Like bringing my full self to the table. Because they were genuinely like, I don't understand why you wouldn't tell us that you guys were getting engaged because we were, I don't know, just trying to be professional, I guess. So yeah, so there's a time and place for bringing your whole self to the table.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

Awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome. And uh three lessons that you learned standing on your favorite veteran's shoulder were one, always be adventurous. What a great lesson. Number two, stand up for your values. Amazing lesson. Number three, mentors are all around you. And I really want to get your take on mentorship and the importance of being mentored and or having a coach. I know there's slightly different things, but I just want to get your take on that.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

Yes, yes. So my dad was enlisted uh in the Navy for 20 years. And the piece of advice he always gave me when I went to the academy was don't be a ring knocker. And so this was about meaning people who went to the academy sometimes, if they would give orders, would knock their ring on the desk. And he's like, Don't be that person that just throws around your title. Don't be that person. So that stuck in my head my entire career. And so what he really taught me there was everyone is a mentor. You can learn from everyone. So treat them with respect, treat them with curiosity. And what can you learn from every single person you interact with? So that's one. The second thing I really want to say about mentorship, particularly because I see this happen as people grow in their leadership position, it gets lonely because you don't have the same camaraderie that you had before. If you were to open up to somebody or you're struggling with a decision, there's always this thing in the back of your head of, am I losing political capital? Am I allowed to say that? Can I open up to my peer about this? There is just this level, no matter how much you trust somebody, there's something that is more difficult when you're at that level. And so going back to my jump conditions, the P stands for people, right? Because I say camaraderie creates courage. So you need to surround yourself with the right people. When you're in college and you're just starting out, it happens naturally. But the old, the more you rise, the more senior you become, the more you have to be intentional with surrounding yourself with the right mentors. You mentioned coaches. I love coaches because they are a neutral third party and you can just figure things out with a third party where you're not worried about losing political capital. And that's a great place to take these little mini jumps, if you will, that you can test out before you take that back into corporate. So all that to say is it starts out easy when you're young, at least in my experience, right? I said I went to the academy, so people would drag me out of my comfort zone. So that was that was easy. It made it easy to do that. But then I had to get super intentional on how I create the right conditions, even for myself, so that I'm able to show up fully.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

So when it comes to coaching, and I'm and again, I'm putting them in the same bucket, they're slightly different. But when it comes to coaching and mentorship, are these things a cost or are these things an investment?

SPEAKER_00 37:02

So I definitely think of them as an investment. I'm not just saying this because I practice what I preach. So before I even thought about becoming an executive coach, I hired my own. I was looking to do a SAP implementation. It was huge. Uh, we were, for those who don't know, it's like a uh it's a the is an ERP. So it's an enterprise resource system. Everything feeds into it. Your financials, all of it goes into this one system. So it's a pretty big lift because you're basically replacing the heartbeat of the or the heart of the company. It's not like just tacking on like a new supply chain software or uh CRM software. It's it's a lot. So I was super nervous about taking this jump to keep with the analogy. Uh, I knew all eyes were gonna be on me. It was super vulnerable. So I wanted somebody from a third party to be able to help me through that. And so I definitely see this as a huge investment to be able to practice summoning the courage so that way you can do these big projects and you can make these big moves and be less scared to step into the spotlight and really live into what you want to want to do.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

And I guess it's circling back to the whole what got you here won't get you there. Because you have someone now to get you to where, to the promised land, if you will. You're someone that's very forward-thinking and also you back it up with action. What is one key takeaway that you've gotten from your journey from the Air Force to entrepreneurship?

SPEAKER_00 38:31

Yes. So as much as you can prepare for a jump, right? I mentioned we put them through the wind tunnel, we have them go through these different routines and we teach them emergency procedures to make sure if something goes wrong, they know what to do and it clicks in. There is a time and a place for that for sure. And I do think those are very important tools that you can use to move through discomfort, to take that next big jump. But at the end of the day, you have to let go. Right. So the path in front of you, right? Sometimes we cling so tightly to that goal that we want, to that thing that we want. But sometimes it's more about setting the right conditions, enjoying the process, figuring it out as we go and letting growth be the thing that fuels us. And you'll be surprised what opportunities lie at your feet. And I don't want you to miss those because you have blinders on. So I think one of the biggest things I learned is the ability to let go.

SPEAKER_02 39:32

That is just so powerful, all of this, you know, stepping outside of your comfort zone. And I'm hearing like being super prepared as you as it were. And then when you do let go, hey, sir, sir, what happens, happens. But you've been so well prepared that you're almost prepared for whether you go left or right. What is one action, one step that someone listening to this right now can take to change how they lead themselves?

SPEAKER_00 39:58

Yes. So I kind of alluded to this. I don't know if I said it super clearly earlier, but I think one of the greatest gifts a leader can give their team is a regulated nervous system. And so what I mean by that is you see those leaders who are the calm in the storm, who can see things clearly, who help down regulate everything when it's and when it's in a stressful, stressful situation, right? Then you see the leaders who are like Tasmanian devils and they're like, oh, go do this, and then we need to do that. And both of them create action. One is spinning their wheels, the other one is deliberate. And so I think one of the greatest gifts you can give a team is a regulated nervous system. And the first step for that is creating more space for yourself. And it doesn't have to be big, right? Like we talk about like so many people are running from meeting to meeting, from this action to that action. But can you just start practicing creating space? So it might be as simple as like when I had kids, it was a lot because you're on 24-7. It's like nothing I ever expected. And so I had to find those moments where I could just bring myself down. Where are these micro moments where I could start to regulate myself? So I came up with a trigger for myself. It doesn't work as much anymore because my oldest can get out of the car by himself, but it used to be the when I was walking around my car to get my kids out of the car seats, that's when I would take some deep belly breaths. So I was practicing every single time I was getting out of the car to slow things down and help down regulate so I could see more clearly and have better access to that tool when things are tense and stressful. And so all that to say is, what is that thing for you? Is it the commute to work? Is it the 15 seconds before jumping on a call? Just start small and it will start to pile up as you go, but just trust that those small jumps build over time.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

Someone's listening to this and they're thinking, I have found my leadership coach.

SPEAKER_02 42:02

Finally, how do they learn more about you?

SPEAKER_00 42:05

Yeah. So for anyone that is looking to have more clarity and calm under pressure, I love to work with people who are in these high-stakes environments. Um or they're looking to be able to operate in these high-stakes environments. I'm more than happy to jump on a call with you. If you want to shoot me an email at Tanya at tanyaandchavez.com, I would love to talk strategy with you and what does that next jump look like for you? And what's one tangible thing you can walk away with so you can stand in the door and take that jump.

SPEAKER_02 42:38

Tanya, it's such an honor to have had you on today. Your story is so amazing and your heart's in the right place as well, wanting to serve others. If you've listened to this and you want to take the leap, go check out Tanya's information. Just go to the show notes for this episode, and it's all there. And go to that. Tanya, it's been awesome. Have an amazing rest of today.

SPEAKER_00 42:58

Likewise, thank you for having me on, Mo. It's always a pleasure chatting with you.

SPEAKER_02 43:02

Awesome. All the best. Ciao. Bye-bye. Thanks for listening to Purpose Driven Success with Mo Salami. Today we explored how Tanya and Chavez turned fear into leadership power. And I hope you walked away with insights that you can apply in your own journey. If you want more, check out one of our other insight-filled value-packed episodes. Next week we'll also have another amazing guest, so stay tuned for more real stories and actionable insights. You can find the links and resources and everything we've mentioned in the show notes below. Work on your mindset, working your skill set, and always move in the direction of the results you want before you see the results you want. And until next time, do the best you can consistently. Ciao.